Posted by Ken Pimentel, 10 September 2010 8:00 pm
The Autodesk® Subscription Advantage Pack for Autodesk® 3ds Max® 2011 software integrates state-of-the-art technology from renowned industry companies who are working with Autodesk to revolutionize rendering and simulation workflows. Featuring lightweight, resolution-independent procedural textures; GPU-accelerated rigid-body dynamics; and one of the world’s first physically accurate “point-and-shoot” renderers, the Advantage Pack for 3ds Max 2011 delivers cutting-edge tools that help leverage the latest hardware advances to help customers maintain their competitive advantage.
Achieve a vast range of look variations with a new library of up to 75 Substance procedural textures. These dynamic, resolution-independent textures have a tiny memory and disk space footprint, making them very good for exporting to games engines via the Allegorithmic Substance Air middleware offering; integration is currently provided for Unreal® Engine 3 game engine, Emergent's Gamebryo game engine, and Unity. Alternatively, textures can be baked to bitmaps for use with certain renderers. Some examples of dynamically editable and animatable parameters are: brick distribution, surface aging, and mortar thickness in a brick wall; pupil size, eye color, and extent of veining in an eye texture; and the age, roughness, curb borders, and lane markings of a street texture.
Create more compelling, dynamic rigid-body simulations directly in the 3ds Max viewport. The multi-threaded NVIDIA® PhysX® engine supports static, dynamic, and kinematic rigid bodies (the latter for rag doll simulations), and a number of constraints: Rigid, Slide, Hinge, Twist, Universal, Ball & Socket, and Gear. Animators can more quickly create a wider range of realistic dynamic simulations, and can also use the toolset for modeling: for example, creating a randomly placed landscape of rocks. Assigning physical properties – friction, density, and bounciness – is as simple as choosing from a set of initial preset real-world materials and tweaking parameters as required.
Creating realistic images has never been easier with 3ds Max, using the newly integrated iray® rendering technology from mental images. Another major milestone in the Rendering Revolution, iray enables artists to set up their scene, press “render,” and get predictable, photo-real results without worrying about rendering settings just like a “point-and-shoot” camera. Artists can focus on their creative vision as they intuitively use real world materials, lighting, and settings to more accurately portray the physical world; iray progressively refines the image until the desired level of detail is achieved. iray works with standard multi-core CPUs. However, NVIDIA CUDA-enabled GPU hardware will significantly accelerate the rendering process.
More information on Shane's blog on iray
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92 Comments
drp281
Posted 10 September 2010 6:31 pm
Jonathan de Blok
Posted 10 September 2010 6:40 pm
mahi
Posted 10 September 2010 7:09 pm
I think I can now say I will look into Vray RT over iray for my needs. I would like an interactive ray tracer for mental ray, but I have never used iray so who knows for sure what it would be good for in my workflow. Also I am hoping on the UI front that things like dynamics become more integrated into a node based work flow such as slate. As it is now, it looks like another tab with its own unique dialog boxes that do fit in a unified UI.
I do love new features as much as the next person, but with XBR I would like to see a shift to where everything works together such as dynamics/cloth/particles....
3DMadness
Posted 10 September 2010 7:11 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 10 September 2010 7:17 pm
yes, it works with any renderer as it is converted to a map for rendering purposes
re: integration
Subscription drops tend to be smaller and less integrated things by nature. In many cases, we've historically addressed the integration issues in the following release.
mahi
Posted 10 September 2010 7:23 pm
http://area.autodesk.com/forum/autodesk-3ds-max/autodesk-3ds-max--3ds-max-design-2011/what-the-community-wants/page-1/
PS: Ken I asked a while ago about a logo redesign with color across the board for 3ds Max. I think you said I would not have to wait long. Any news you can share on that?
mahi
Posted 10 September 2010 7:26 pm
I said: "PS: Ken I asked a while ago about a logo redesign with color across the board for 3ds Max. I think you said I would not have to wait long. Any news you can share on that?"
Sorry I did not mean "logo" redesign. I wanted to say Icon.
"we've historically addressed the integration issues in the following release. "
Thanks for that Ken. It is good to hear.
Ummmmmm, I found the edit button. I guess I need to not work and post at the same time. Sorry everyone for that!
Ken Pimentel
Posted 10 September 2010 7:34 pm
Icons are slow progress (3,750 of them). However, UI color consistency is something we view as important as well as better icons for the dark theme (which I assume you were asking about). I can't really tell you specifics of the future (unfortunately). I can say we're not ignoring these issues.
Hadi Ghasemzadeh
Posted 10 September 2010 7:38 pm
Zov
Posted 10 September 2010 7:50 pm
I was curious about the Quicksilver and Iray... I wonder if... with the integrated Iray, Quicksilver will continue into the next versions of Max...
Ken Pimentel
Posted 10 September 2010 7:56 pm
First of all, Hot Fix 2 fixed several Qs problems. If you haven't tried it lately, give it a go. We can never talk definitively about future features, but I can see no reason to remove it and further research is under way. Qs is not iray - they are radically different. Qs does a lot with pixel shader technology while iray is a physically-based ray tracing engine that uses the GPU for acceleration and has certain restrictions on shaders/workflows.
3DMadness
Posted 10 September 2010 8:33 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 10 September 2010 8:36 pm
Sounds like a great idea to me
Ostro
Posted 10 September 2010 9:35 pm
but general speaking Iray is a huge step that have been taken and it would change the rendering work-flow especially for architects...
what i hope is to organize the autodesk material even more like better preview of the material ... maybe using images for previewing to have better idea than the standard preview just for the sake of speed and giving more information on where to use those materials...
Ken Pimentel
Posted 11 September 2010 12:24 am
We will be announcing some news about that too soon. There is another reason that PhysX is going in...
Erik López
Posted 11 September 2010 12:36 am
Ostro
Posted 11 September 2010 1:33 pm
if you've seen the video again you would notice that she said it's a high resolution rendering...
and by comparison to the mr settings that would achieve such result i bet it would take 4 hours or even more
regardless to the time of tweaking it
considering your self using the FG brute force method... I bet it would take way too long
+ using DOF would no longer add time to your rendering and it's so accurate...
so after all i guess it's something really worth trying even for professional guys
yiannisk
Posted 11 September 2010 6:53 pm
Gryp Master
Posted 11 September 2010 8:45 pm
and thanks for listening
Terskov Alexander
Posted 11 September 2010 9:16 pm
scionik
Posted 11 September 2010 9:19 pm
PiXeL_MoNKeY
Posted 12 September 2010 3:00 am
1: Do the Substance textures still need UV coordinates of can they be used as fully procedural (XYZ) textures?
-- Yes they need UV coordinates as the maps are 2d procedurals and not 3d procedurals. Allegorithmic also has their Substance Designer (separate commercial package) which will allow you to create your substance maps and expose your desired outputs.
2: Does iRay converge to a fully photorealistic solution using both CPU and GPU calculations or are there limitations because only GPU code is used?
-- iray will use all of the resources it can, however your scene must fit into the memory of the device (system and each individual gpu). There are also string commands that can be used to control what is actually used to render with iray.
3: Is iRay also usable as an interactive ActiveShade renderer, reflecting scene changes in realtime, like V-Ray RT?
-- No it is currently only supported as a standard and material renderer, but who knows what the future will bring.
For those asking about Substance, it will work with all standard plugin renderers (brazil, fr, vray, etc) as well as mr and QS.
-Eric
Terskov Alexander
Posted 12 September 2010 2:38 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 12 September 2010 2:44 pm
milfora
Posted 12 September 2010 11:25 pm
It already seems so tantalisingly close.
AM
Intars5d
Posted 12 September 2010 11:55 pm
PiXeL_MoNKeY
Posted 13 September 2010 2:06 am
"You'll get these by the end of September, I don't want to say more than that until the date is officially disclosed."
-Eric
Maryus3D
Posted 13 September 2010 7:14 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 13 September 2010 8:35 pm
visualz
Posted 13 September 2010 11:57 pm
http://www.screencast.com/users/visualZ/folders/Jing/media/f1988480-5880-4b1f-93c1-582c2e295cdc
//gD
PiXeL_MoNKeY
Posted 14 September 2010 11:14 pm
You are missing the noise maps in that image.
re:Maya features
It would probably be best to go and post those comments on Cory's Blog for the Maya Advantage Pack.
re:loran
My guess is that the mental ray render wasn't optimized. In other words the power of iray is that you don't have to worry about the tricks or cheats to make it faster. As long as you are using supported components you simply select a method for controlling how the renderer knows when to stop (time, passes, or unlimited). There are a few more options, but that is the general idea.
-Eric
duttyfoot
Posted 15 September 2010 12:00 am
It would probably be best to go and post those comments on Cory's Blog for the Maya Advantage Pack."
I'll do just that
The Cult of 3D
Posted 15 September 2010 6:10 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 15 September 2010 6:17 pm
I believe she had a single Quadro 5000 to do that video. We have some beta customers who are working on getting four Tesla GPUs set up in one PC for a crazy fast experience. The Fermi-based GPUs are roughly 2-3X faster than the older generation. For example, a Quadro 5000 (Fermi) is a little more than 2X faster than a Quadro 5800 (pre-Fermi), and is roughly 5X faster than a single quad-core i7.
timd1971
Posted 17 September 2010 2:01 am
Ken Pimentel
Posted 17 September 2010 12:11 pm
iray will not support this workflow in the subscription release. We are researching other modes, but we can't talk about future features on a public forum.
re: GPU RAM
Customer using a 2Gb GPU was able to render a 6M poly scene with textures.
pvt.Antonov
Posted 17 September 2010 9:03 pm
I thought it will be a revolution in gpu rendering scene when same results as mental ray can be achived in seconds.
But as usual they make another one button no brainer for dummies.Oh i forgot...
We must get more INCOME!
MOOOAR =/
timd1971
Posted 19 September 2010 1:19 am
I guess iRay just lets you set a time limit on your render, or unlimited etc? will it let you work while rendering and rotate, etc in realtime, and see the results?
timd1971
Posted 19 September 2010 1:44 am
http://www.mentalimages.com/products/iray.html
ok, so the subscription version is NOT a interactive renderer as in the above link? Shouldn't call this Iray then, but maybe something else? half-a$$ Iray maybe? Don't tease us like that! Must be a future XBR integrated feature again. (can't talk about it yet again, jeez, just get it done already) Well...at least we have so many other interactive renderers to choose from anyways and the list is growing. Sounds to be something pretty standard anyways coming up in most 3d apps due to use of multi gpu computations...surprised its taken this long to have noticed all that wasted power sitting in the pc while the CPU chews through it????
Ken Pimentel
Posted 19 September 2010 2:14 pm
I think a lot of people will appreciate getting iray as a production render that uses their GPU even if it isn't fully "ActiveShade" or interactive. It's not a situation of all or none. People need to get used to what iray does and doesn't do. It definitely is NOT a preview of mental ray, though iray shares a subset of mental ray workflows.
Historically, we've released subscription extensions in "basic" mode only to improve on them later when a release shipped. Subscription extensions are not new releases of the product - so we're limited in the scope they can have. I'm sorry, I can't say more than that.
mahi
Posted 20 September 2010 2:27 pm
For me, I use 3ds Max 2011, I want to start to see Autodesk define what people want from the 2 versions of Max and Max Design. I can see me using Iray for some things, but not much for what I do. Not that this is a bad thing because as mentioned here before interactive renderers are becoming standard. I just dont want to pay for them over what I do for my subscription for Max
Ken Pimentel
Posted 21 September 2010 3:25 pm
We are working with mi to figure out options with RS and we will be posting more performance benchmarks. Stay tuned.
ElectronSpeed
Posted 21 September 2010 9:25 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 21 September 2010 9:40 pm
garek007
Posted 22 September 2010 10:15 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 23 September 2010 11:24 am
I will get to it, it is part of my GTC preso, I just need to find time to assemble it in a blog.
pixelmonk
Posted 25 September 2010 1:53 am
Phil Miller
Posted 25 September 2010 2:04 pm
>>is the iray, which comes with the subscription, capable of something like Distributed Bucket Rendering or Split Scanlines?
The upcoming version of Max iray can only use the processors on the local machine. Other machines would have to get sequential frames - like traditional Max network rendering.
>> My mainboards do have two PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots plus one PCI-E 2.0 x4. Would iray be able to fully use 3 graphics cards ion these slots or is the x4 limitation of the 3rd slot a slowdown for
We have not noticed a slow down on iray rendering for X8 and x4 slots as compared to x16 slots, as there's not that much data going across the bus per second. NVIDIA has not tested on PIC-EX slots slower than X4.
- Phil
c0cllc
Posted 25 September 2010 2:21 pm
I missed another, last, question, it's about the graphics memory limit:
So what i understood, is, that at the point, when a scene can't fit into the video memory of each GPU, the CPU's continue the job without the GPUs. So things will become slower. My question is, if a scene needs for example 5 GB of normal memory in CPU-only rendering in Mental Ray, how much VGA memory would the scene need for iRay to fully use a GPU. Is there any divisor taht could help us estimate our VGA memory needs?
Phil Miller
Posted 25 September 2010 4:43 pm
iray will consume the same amount of memory for a given scene whether it's using the GPU or CPU, but that amount will be different than what mental ray requires. We'll put together some rules of thumb for estimating that amount in the FAQ. I do know that if you're working with large scenes (+10mil faces) and/or large amounts of textures (+1GB), then you should consider the the Quadro and Tesla boards for their larger memory so you can maintain your speed. These boards will be up to 6GB next month.
- Phil
c0cllc
Posted 25 September 2010 8:07 pm
MirkoH
Posted 27 September 2010 10:57 am
@Rik72: as far as I know GPU memory on seperate grafic cards can not be summed up. So in this case, you would have over 1000 cuda cores, but only 1 gig of GPU memory in total.
Ken Pimentel
Posted 27 September 2010 1:27 pm
No, you cannot sum it up. However, I think exactly how much memory you're going to need is something you'll want to understand and this can only be done by practical experiments. We are saying between 5M and 10M polys per 1Gb.
Ken Pimentel
Posted 27 September 2010 1:47 pm
c0cllc
Posted 27 September 2010 2:28 pm
Phil Miller
Posted 27 September 2010 2:42 pm
>>So if we had one x 2gig 460...
Not sure why the talk of 2GB here as the 460 is either a 1 or a 3/4 GB card. The largest memory on GTX is 1.5 GB with the 480. It's the Quadro's and Tesla's that have 2.5 GB, 3 GB and 6 GB versions.
>>If it's mostly about the number of cores then seems like the 460s are certainly the way to go.
The 460 might currently be your best price/core option, but your best core/slot game-card option is clearly the 480 with +43% more cores than a 460. Even a 470 has 1/3 more cores than a 460.
- Phil
c0cllc
Posted 27 September 2010 2:55 pm
maybe you missed that there are several GTX 460 out with a memory of 2048MB.
Check it out:
http://www.gainward.com/main/vgapro.php?id=400
http://www.palit.biz/main/vgapro.php?id=1354
Ken Pimentel
Posted 27 September 2010 2:57 pm
re: localization
Sept 29th is a world-wide availability the advantage pack. iray will be localized as part of this, so you should be able to get hold of a German version of our advantage pack for iray. We are not localizing the PhysX package. Only iray and Substance.
c0cllc
Posted 27 September 2010 5:17 pm
Phil Miller
Posted 27 September 2010 5:37 pm
Sure enough - some of our OEMs have indeed come out with 2GB versions of the GTX 460, and our web site's spec's haven't been updated to reflect that. I'm on the workstation side, and am not as in touch with our consumer side. On paper, two 460's should best a 480's iray performance by a bit over a third. A machine would just have a lower upper performance limit using 460’s (because more slots are in use) and you could accommodate larger scenes with Quadro & Tesla. Lots of options out there depending upon what you want to trade off – cost, PCIE slots, scene size, power, reliability.
>> is there a difference for iray when cards run in SLI mode?
SLI provides no advantage for Compute, meaning an SLI motherboard is not required for iray or other GPU ray tracing options to use multiple GPUs.
- Phil
Phil Miller
Posted 27 September 2010 6:50 pm
There are several renderers with similar approaches to iray in their rendering (unbiased path tracing). This is a massive processing task in all cases, and many feel the GPU's speed has brought it within practical consideration for production use. Many 3D artists, especially designers, feel this rendering approach is faster than previous ones (scanline, traditional mental ray, etc.) because it’s more predictable – using light sources the way the physical world does. As a progressive renderer, designers are also often able to tell if their lighting setup is working properly in the first minute – which really cuts down on the creative iteration time. What iray then brings you is an integrated 3ds Max workflow (using many of Max’s core materials, maps and lighting) that will only improve with time.
timd1971
Posted 28 September 2010 3:50 am
tty044
Posted 28 September 2010 9:55 am
Sevensheaven
Posted 28 September 2010 10:07 am
Ken Pimentel
Posted 28 September 2010 1:41 pm
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/more_details_on_mental_image_s_iray_in_3ds_max_and_the_cloud
re: RTT
No, not at this time.
re: performance profiles of hw
There is a chart in my Rendering Revolution presentation in the blog posting above
Ken Pimentel
Posted 28 September 2010 2:06 pm
Rik72
Posted 28 September 2010 2:10 pm
Sevensheaven
Posted 28 September 2010 2:16 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 28 September 2010 2:35 pm
I don't know. I think they were two C2050 and a Quadro 5000
Rik72
Posted 28 September 2010 4:10 pm
Thanks Ken...
All we needed to know
c0cllc
Posted 28 September 2010 4:29 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 28 September 2010 8:35 pm
I believe they are supported, but I could be wrong on that one
c0cllc
Posted 29 September 2010 6:04 am
Shane Griffith
Posted 29 September 2010 12:06 pm
c0cllc
Posted 29 September 2010 12:26 pm
duttyfoot
Posted 29 September 2010 2:22 pm
Sevensheaven
Posted 29 September 2010 3:06 pm
Sevensheaven
Posted 29 September 2010 3:11 pm
c0cllc
Posted 29 September 2010 4:00 pm
What if i have 2 computers and use Backburner: so if i enable SPLIT SCANLINES for a rendering, that normally would not fit into the GPU memory of each of my computers. So SPLIT SCANLINES enables every computer to render only a part of the image and later Backburner stitches the parts together. Would rendering only a part of the image lead to a lower memory consumption, thus allowing us this way to often use the full GPU power even if scenes are to memory intensive for rendering them at once?
Shane Griffith
Posted 29 September 2010 4:44 pm
Phil Miller
Posted 29 September 2010 4:56 pm
The entire scene (geometry and bitmaps) must fit into a GPU's memory in order for that GPU to process it. This is a common situation for all GPU Ray Tracing solutions at this time.
c0cllc
Posted 29 September 2010 5:17 pm
Shane Griffith
Posted 29 September 2010 5:23 pm
Sevensheaven
Posted 30 September 2010 9:26 am
A question: how do I control the DOF when using iRay? Does the camera target acts as the focal point? And is there a way to set the f-stop and shutterspeed?
Ken Pimentel
Posted 30 September 2010 10:54 am
We have initiated a long-term partnership with nvidia. What you see in the subscription drop isn't going to be much different than what Nvidia makes available to developers. However, our partnership continues...
loran
Posted 4 October 2010 3:39 pm
Select the camera, Enable Multi-Pass in the camera settings and set it to Depth of Field (Mental Ray). Change the camera target disance and the F-stop to adjust the Focus.
Sevensheaven
Posted 4 October 2010 7:14 pm
Sevensheaven
Posted 4 October 2010 7:18 pm
loran
Posted 6 October 2010 8:41 am
Create a daylight system, Set Sunlight to 'mr Sun' and Skylight 'mr Sky'. Render Iray... that simple
Sevensheaven
Posted 6 October 2010 3:12 pm
I'll try it again. Maybe the scene contained something unusual that blocked a correct render.
Ken Pimentel
Posted 20 December 2010 6:48 pm
Rik72
Posted 20 December 2010 7:19 pm
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