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The AU experience and Excalibur

Posted by Ken Pimentel, 4 December 2009 5:51 am

3ds Max was well represented at AU. On the main stage, they showed the interactive lighting design capabilities of 3ds Max/Design in use for an art gallery. Then, the AutoCAD & ME Keynote (yes, that is not a spelling mistake), had a great session in front of hundreds showing the work Mariott was doing using 3ds Max to replace expensive physical prototypes of rooms and renovations. Then, the big event, about 20 minutes of Avatar (the movie) presented in 3D with full, body-shaking, Dolby sound. This was a clip that was specially cut for the event by James Cameron and Joe Landau. Joe was there to do the presentation. It blew my mind - the 3D was was crystal clear and totally sucked me into the world. And what a world it was! I understand 3ds Max was used with Maya and Motionbuilder at Lightstorm (at least according to one of the key Lightstorm employees I talked to).

I then gave a presentation to about 200 people that laid out our Design/Vis focus along with the basic elements of Excalibur. For those of you who are hearing those words for the first time, Excalibur, or XBR, is the restructuring of 3ds Max. We decided that for 3ds Max to remain relevant for the next 20 years, we'd have to restructure a substantial portion of it. Instead of trying to do this in a single release (and blowing up everyone's training/knowledge) we've decided to do it in 3 major phases. These phases do NOT equate to releases and we're not releasing much more information than this. I will say that our first phase was mostly delivered in 3ds Max 2010, but some key parts didn't make the release. We're not releasing much more of the details publicly (sorry).

Finally, we had Showcase, Project Newport and 3ds Max User Advisory Councils and I think it is safe to say that we blew some minds with our plans. For 3ds Max/Design, we took people through many of the key "big projects" for XBR. We then asked them to help us prioritize the big ticket items. One quickly popped to the top because everyone thought it was a game changer for the industry. Unfortunately we can't tell you what that is quite yet, but I hope those that were there can at least share their enthusiasm even though they are legally prevented from sharing the details. What's really interesting, is that we demo'd something else that I think really rocked everyone's expectations regarding future rendering directions. The Rendering Revolution is definitely here and I think you'll be seeing soon how 3ds Max/Design is leading it (with the help of all our partners).

Hang on, it's about to get interesting...

 

29 Comments

Glacierise

Posted 4 December 2009 9:35 am

Yey, so Max is gonna get revamp?! Way cool! All I'd want is for it to stay competitive, and if that's what you guys are doing - thumbs up!

bill n

Posted 4 December 2009 1:54 pm

GREAT news!

Ken Pimentel

Posted 4 December 2009 2:29 pm

I don't really want to be the one saying how exciting things are looking. I'd much prefer a user that is involved and exposed to some of these new developments to share their interest/enthusiasm level. I don't think it means much to all of you for me to say that I'm excited. We have to hear it from the users that depend on our software.

Ken Pimentel

Posted 4 December 2009 8:05 pm

Only because I want to take 3ds Max to a place that is unlike anything else anyone has seen...

CARL_BRAUN

Posted 4 December 2009 11:55 pm

If you need a few more for the advice council...who am I kidding I am just a shlub out there in the wilds of Missouri gunning for a free XBR tshirt (and or Ball Cap Both size XXL) so I can be the swankest guy on Facebook while I am chained to my desk learning this new Excalibur Evolution of Max. Sounds like I am finally getting my X mass Wish in a fully updated Max albet in a few years.

Ken Pimentel

Posted 5 December 2009 1:28 am

The good news is that at least 50% of our advisory council are people just like you - serious VFX artists/TDs. We've got most of the people you see on the forums sharing their wizardry and advising us. I think they would be the first to tell us if we're off base.

The issues you cite are known to us. XBR is about core changes, not small adjustments. We're going deep on this and I think we can promise some surprises. It is really going to be a new way of working with data that I don't think is reflected in any other product - but we'll see.

Ken Pimentel

Posted 7 December 2009 3:29 am

re: ddustin
Yes, annual releases that cause data and plug-in compatibility issues are a big problem for customers and for ourselves. Would it be better for you if a new release could generate a prior version data? This means you could begin to use a new release without committing fully to it. Secondly, would it be easier if plug-ins stayed compatible from release to release? As to performance, that is a tricky issue as it can be very hw dependent. 3ds Max 2010 uses much more of your GPU resources than 3ds Max 2009. Not all hw is created equal. Thanks for the support!

re: juang3d
Thanks so much for the vote of confidence! It's definitely a team effort, I'm often just the cheerleader - so you have to put up with me more than others. Luckily, I'm a cheerleader with something to cheer about!!

Ken Pimentel

Posted 7 December 2009 1:11 pm

re: VFX
You mean like 60% of the shots on 2012 and almost all of Planet51? . Actually, we're as big in Games as we are in ArchVis, so don't forget that little "niche". 3ds Max/Design is unique in that it plays such a significant role in many markets. I too believe that VFX needs to be well-served in order that our ArchViz business succeeds. However, we have to remember to keep it "out-of-the-box" because that is what allowed us to become the largest professional tool on the planet.

Mahlon

Posted 7 December 2009 3:54 pm

I'm curious. In what capacity was max used in 60% of 2012 shots? And Planet 51? I'm not trying to be a snot, I'm really just curious because I don't know the details.

Thanks,
Mahlon

bill n

Posted 7 December 2009 4:32 pm

re: "Would it be better for you if a new release could generate a prior version data? This means you could begin to use a new release without committing fully to it. Secondly, would it be easier if plug-ins stayed compatible from release to release?"

Yes, definitely to the first question. Maybe you could take the AutoCad route of producing a .Max file format that stays set for 4 years or so before being incompatible with old versions. And back-saving is a feature that's been missing in Max since V1.
As for plugins, I actually wouldn't mind if Max 2011 broke every single plugin known to Max if it meant we would have the next 4 versions of Max where old plugins work. Every now and again large changes are needed, and now that we know Max2011 is going to be a whole new program, I would say go for it and break plugins now so that they may work long into the future.

Here's looking forward to Max FINALLY getting a node-based material editor! *hint hint*

PiXeL_MoNKeY

Posted 7 December 2009 4:54 pm

There is a lot of stuff coming in the future of Max. It appears that Autodesk is listening, to some extent, to their customers and what they want. However, change and evolution can take time. They are looking at the best ways to handle a lot of the request that people have asked for. But the when, where, and how will only be revealed as time passes. So if we can lets try and ride out the XBR process and see what we have at the end of the ride, whenever that may be.

-Eric

Ken Pimentel

Posted 7 December 2009 5:37 pm

re: 2012
Uncharted Territory did a lot of the shots (they are a 3ds Max house) and someone told me (that was close to the project) that roughly 60% of the overall shots were 3ds Max-based. That person could have been wrong, but there is no question that Uncharted Territory did a lot of the shots and that they used 3ds Max (I also think final render and thinking particles were used).

As to Planet 51, that is from Illion in Spain which is practically 100% 3ds Max.

PiXeL_MoNKeY

Posted 7 December 2009 6:32 pm

That sounds a little high, but 3d World did an article on 2012 and IIRC Uncharted Territory did some 400+ shots for the movie, with Scanline doing another 90+ shots with 3ds max. Not sure exactly what the other studios used, but according to the CGW article here
The Uncharted Territory artists created 400 of the 1315 shots in the film, and Engel and Weigart contracted with another 15 studios to wrestle the rest, each chosen at the outset for their particular skills.


-Eric

PiXeL_MoNKeY

Posted 7 December 2009 6:33 pm

There really should be a comment preview option. The proper url is: http://www.cgw.com/Press-Center/Web-Exclusives/2009/End-of-Days.aspx

Ken Pimentel

Posted 7 December 2009 6:48 pm

re: 2012
Like I said, someone that seemed very involved in the process, told me roughly 60% of the shots were 3ds Max. Let's just say that a lot of the shots were 3ds Max - perhaps more than half.

Shawn Hendriks

Posted 7 December 2009 8:58 pm

and here is another web page talking about how 3ds max was used by both uncharted and scanline.

http://www.pr-inside.com/autodesk-tools-help-destroy-the-universe-r1614119.htm

Meshbase

Posted 8 December 2009 12:05 am

Quote... Like I said, someone that seemed very involved in the process, told me roughly 60% of the shots were 3ds Max. Let's just say that a lot of the shots were 3ds Max - perhaps more than half.

If you have sets with this amount of data, you have no options.... 3dsmax or die! ! ! ! ! !
my latest record are 25 mio of polygons... no instances! Rendering time.. 10 min per frame !

Ken Pimentel

Posted 8 December 2009 4:46 pm

re: beta
I am not allowed to confirm the existence of a beta (or not). However, when we recently asked our customer advisors what content they produce, 58% said they produce "Entertainment" content. Of course, this includes Games. We intentionally try to get 30% Games, 30% VFX and 30% Design/Vis users in our advisory. Of course, who is vocal on a forum is difficult to control or predict.

Mahlon

Posted 8 December 2009 7:59 pm

re: 2012
Uncharted Territory did a lot of the shots (they are a 3ds Max house) and someone told me (that was close to the project) that roughly 60% of the overall shots were 3ds Max-based. That person could have been wrong, but there is no question that Uncharted Territory did a lot of the shots and that they used 3ds Max (I also think final render and thinking particles were used).

As to Planet 51, that is from Illion in Spain which is practically 100% 3ds Max.


Thanks, Ken.

Ken Pimentel

Posted 8 December 2009 8:42 pm

XBR my friend, XBR!

superrune

Posted 9 December 2009 7:45 am



Looking forward to see what you guys are up to!

Ken Pimentel

Posted 15 December 2009 3:54 pm

A=Autodesk
R=Rendering Revolution
T=Transforming how data is managed
H=Highly multi-threaded view system
U=UI re-invention
R=Rethinking data persistancy

Ken Pimentel

Posted 18 December 2009 10:38 pm

Yes, I thought of that when I chose the name.

Pigeon

Posted 19 December 2009 11:34 pm

Wow, you are really not very good at keeping expectations low! ;D

This sounds so interesting and I can't wait to find out what you guys have got in store

Ken Pimentel

Posted 20 December 2009 1:01 am

re: Expectations
Sigh... Yes, I tend to get overly excited by what I see of the future. I tend to look in 3-4 year horizons and sometimes I bring that excitement back to the present day. There can definitely be a disconnect. But, it is vital we are thinking long-term if we want to act long-term. It's easy to get caught in the 12 month cycle and chase your tail.

Ziggi

Posted 25 January 2010 2:47 am

At least - please - make Max' unit axis system flexible, so I may opt for right- or left-hand orientation dependent on target game-engine...

And please - node-based material editor as what we have in Max now SUCKS !!!

Ziggi

Ken Pimentel

Posted 25 January 2010 1:40 pm

Don't forget to register for the XBR event:
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/register_for_excalibur_xbr_webinar

EECYlwik

Posted 25 January 2010 3:40 pm

I just realized where I had seen the letters XBR before AU.... The 3D Studio Max Design 2010 Quick Reference Cube. One of the buildings has an XBR reference. Autodesk is getting cryptic?

Ken Pimentel

Posted 25 January 2010 3:46 pm

Yes, we planted some "XBR seeds", look at your 2010 splash screen (if you have 3ds Max Design).

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