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Rig resizing headaches
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  • i3ds
  • Posted: 05 July 2010 04:12 PM
  • Total Posts: 18
  • Joined: 13 November 2008 12:12 PM

I’m having a heck of a time trying to scale the default “marine” rig using CAT to match the scale of my objects. Basically, I need this guy to be roughly 3x larger than he is (mesh, bones etc.). I tried the scale tool… the screws things up. I tried editing the CAT ratios, it screws things up. I even tried the Animation - CAT rig resizing which just ends-up spitting a bunch of errors. I got around this earlier by just scalling down the entire environment the model was in but I can’t do this in this case.

I’m not sure why this is so difficult, I’m using 3ds Max 2011… you would think this is a very common situation but I can’t seem to find a way of accomplishing this very easy task.

How do I resize a CAT model so everything stays proportionally the same in order to match the scale of the rest of my environment?

Thanks,
Jon


Replies: 0
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  • i3ds
  • Posted: 06 July 2010 12:24 AM

This problem seems to be isolated with the Marine CAT, the others scale up/down by dragging the mouse while still having the button clicked down.

Jon


Replies: 0
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  • sysyphus
  • Posted: 06 July 2010 02:06 AM

have you used the CAT resizing tool?

from: http://download.autodesk.com/esd/3dsmax/cat-help-2010/index.html

To use Rig Resizer:
1. Add a rig.
2. From the CAT menu, choose Rig Resizer. This opens the Rig Resizer dialog.
3. Click the Add button to open a Pick dialog.
4. Highlight the items to resize and then click the Frame button.
All highlighted items appear in the Objects list, along with the type of object (for
example, Skin Mesh, CATBone). Each listed item has an associated check box; to disable
resizing for an item, turn off its check box.
5. Set the Scale Factor value.
6. Click Resize.

All listed and enabled objects are scaled by the specified scale factor.

hope that helps


Replies: 0
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  • i3ds
  • Posted: 06 July 2010 02:44 PM

I have tried that but it generates a lot of errors in a pop-up.

Jon


Replies: 1
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The Rig resizer appears to have a few issues, and its definitely on my list of “To Fix”.

In the mean-time, the reason this script exists is because its pretty difficult to correctly scale a fully rigged & skinned character (as you have seen).  This Marine rig is fully set-up and ready to animate, unlike the other CAT rigs which are just bones (no skin).

This situation is not as common as you might think - usually the skin is moddelled in relation to its target scenery, and the rig is simply fitted to the mesh.  No need to resize the final, skinned mesh.

You can create the marine sans skinning, by using the Marine_NoBones_NoSkin preset, in which case resizing is simply a case of changing the CATUnits scale.

Author: StephenT
Replied: 08 July 2010 06:06 AM  
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  • i3ds
  • Posted: 09 July 2010 07:04 PM

I look forward to a solution being figured-out. I think the CAT system is very powerful and hope to use it more extensively in the future.

Jon


Replies: 0
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  • Gräck
  • Posted: 20 July 2010 09:57 PM

In the meantime, in order to fix the pop-up errors when using the RigResizer script with a skinned mesh, open the RigResizer.ms script file and remove the following lines:

fn BakeMesh obj =
 (
 local skinmod = FindSkinMod obj;
 select obj;
 setCommandPanelTaskMode #modify
 modPanel.setCurrentObject skinmod ui:true
 
 skinmod.always_deform = false
 skinOps.SelectVertices skinmod #{1..obj.mesh.numverts}
 skinOps.bakeSelectedVerts skinmod 
 )
local skinmod = FindSkinMod obj;
 select obj;
 
 -- add an XForm modifier
 xformmod = XForm()
 modPanel.setCurrentObject obj ui:true
 modPanel.addModToSelection xformmod
 
 --xformmod.center = (Inverse (getModContextTM obj xformmod)).pos
 --xformmod.center.controller.value 
 xformmod.gizmo.scale.controller.value = [scalefactor,scalefactor,scalefactor]
 subObjectLevel = 0

After that, scale your skinned mesh in sub-object mode and turn Always Deform in the Skin Modifier off and on again.


My CAT demoreel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfq-4VoeAPU

Replies: 0
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  • ddustin
  • Posted: 06 September 2010 05:22 AM

To have to jump through all these hoops is simply inexcusable.
You can make all the excuses you want, but there should be a straight forward way to change the size of a character.
Why should we attempt to adopt CAT rigs when we have these types of issues?
I may be off base here, but this just seems to be a very poor method of execution.
It seems we will need to stay with biped for a while longer till this issue is resolved or I will need to pay someone to rescale the characters I need (pathetic)..


Replies: 0
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  • Gräck
  • Posted: 06 September 2010 07:32 PM

Calm down. I have resized dozens of characters with CAT. The Rig Resizer tool is great and works very well (if the error is fixed). Rig Resizer not only scales the rig (which can be done with the default CAT tools in Setup Mode without any animation layer applied anyway), but also scales the animation correctly. As I said I have done this so many times, you can be sure it works.

Use the following Rig Resizer script. It was really easy to fix. I have changed a few lines in there so it also works with skinned meshes.

Make sure to unhide all objects that belong to your rig, including skinned mesh, helper objects, custom objects and whatever. Open up the Rig Resizer tool and add all objects. Type in your desired scale value and process.

Note if you have a skinned mesh applied, the rescaling of the mesh will not be finished due to the error that has been fixed in my version of the script. You need to rescale the mesh manually afterwards. To do this, don’t simply scale your mesh at object level. Scale it in sub-object mode (by selecting all polygons) with the world pivot. Also you need to uncheck and recheck the option “Always Deform” in the Advanced Parameters of the Skin Modifier.

Hope this helps.

On a sidenote, resizing rigs is not easy to do at all. I think we can be happy we have such a resizing tool at all.

Here’s the script…

http://www.graeck.de/showroom/Rig%20Resizer.ms


My CAT demoreel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfq-4VoeAPU

Replies: 1
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I tried following the instructions you posted on one of the axyz models provided with Max 2011. Everything was unhidden and unfrozen. First I unchecked “Always Deform” in the mesh. Then I scaled the bones by 200% with the Rig Resizer. Then I grabbed the mesh, went to polygon mode, and grabbed everything. Then I put it in world pivot and scaled that by 200%. Then when I went to look at the results the rig and the mesh were the same size but they were no longer aligned.  I tried to manually realign the bones and the mesh with several different approaches, however every time I did the models envelopes would be off. The feet had parts of the leg attached to it, the wrists had similar properties, etc. Can it be that the rig resizer causes the loss of envelope settings? That would almost ruin the purpose of rescaling a model. If you know why these problems are happening feedback would be much appreciated. I have to make deadlines so I don’t have much time to continue messing with these. If you would like to I could pay you to rescale them for me. What are your current rates? PM me or reply here with contact information.

Author: ddustin
Replied: 11 September 2010 11:47 AM  
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  • tyree
  • Posted: 07 September 2010 10:42 AM

to dustin you might want to hold off on your critiques about cat until you have actually used it. you really cant compare biped to cat. its really like comparing a typewriter to a computer. they operate at levels that are not equal.

you have to either use the script or you could always resize the rig the old way. scale the bones in setup mode and reskin the mesh


Replies: 0
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  • ddustin
  • Posted: 08 September 2010 02:02 AM

tyree 07 September 2010 05:42 PM

to dustin you might want to hold off on your critiques about cat until you have actually used it.

Tyree, you are making the assumption I have not used CAT. I have and I like it.
My comment was directed to how AD implemented it.

We are not much into character animations (a very small portion of our work is character related).
We have to use characters for some projects.

One should not have to jump through hoops to use a tool that was released and touted by AD.
That is my point


Replies: 0
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  • tyree
  • Posted: 08 September 2010 07:31 AM

from that point of view it would be a hassle. Im thinking your constantly animating characters.  for your situation you have a valid point


Replies: 0
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