I am having a problem that i read about in the help files on MR. I have a couple of thin objects and one has a map on it of a barcode. When i render it is all messed up. Like the image i attached. I also noticed that a few other objects have small artifacts here and there. I cant move these objects anymore then i already have. What am i supposed to do?

Is the scale of my project just too small? They are real size and quite small. If so is there a quick way of just scaling the whole project up to try it?

Also i am not sure if it is related but i get the noise around objects the black specks and i just cant get rid of them. I have turned up this and that but to no avail except more computer time.

I am new to MR in 2009. I remember there being better tutorials and information in the older versions of max about MR i think. with descriptions of noise etc and different settings to try and get rid of it.

Q

Intel i7 920 with 6 gig Ram. 64 bit Win7. Max 2009 and Max 2011
Small 5 machine render farm of mixed machines.
More coffee please!  :-)

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That looks to me like Z fighting. That’s where two or more faces exist in the same position on the same plane, Max doesn’t know which surface to display/render in that place. To fix it, either move the coincident faces a little away from each other, so there is a tiny gap, or cut out and delete the lower face under the bar code.

Yes it is definetly the z-fighting but i made sure my objects had a gap between them. If i move it up then yes it works but it starts to look funny as there is an obvious gap where there shouldnt be one. I find this crazy.

That was why i was wondering if it was a physical scale thing where if i scaled my objects up 10x then a smaller gap would be ok?

I did get it massaged into the smalles gap i could get away with and it will do but i was hoping for a better solution..

I tried planes and boxes and thin boxes and extruded poly lines. some thick and sunk into the surface below or just hovering above etc. I also tried changing the units from generic to meters to see if that made a difference. i also tried different image file types and filtering..

There used to be filtering that you could turn on for a map that helped for shallow angle viewing etc… does that exist with the MR materials?

Thanks for any help.

Q

Intel i7 920 with 6 gig Ram. 64 bit Win7. Max 2009 and Max 2011
Small 5 machine render farm of mixed machines.
More coffee please!  :-)

If a gap doesn’t work for you, I would remove the underlaying face altogether. Apply an Edit Poly and delete it.

Yes i thought of that too but i am supposed to remove the barcode. but i could just have a stand in object that is invisible. It all just seems crazy as i use maps a lot on small planes for logos etc.

Oh well move on.

Thanks.

Q

Intel i7 920 with 6 gig Ram. 64 bit Win7. Max 2009 and Max 2011
Small 5 machine render farm of mixed machines.
More coffee please!  :-)

If the underlying problem is one of scale, you really ought to sort it out or you’ll keep running into the same issue.

What are your System Units set to? (not the display units, the System Units)
How big are the objects? in generic units
How far away is the barcode from the object behind it? in generic units
How close is the camera to the objects? The further away it is, the closer the faces will be (as a % of the distance from the camera). The close they get the more chance there is of Z fighting. If they are further apart to begin with, by using (for example) millimeters instead of inches, the gap between them stays at usable values for longer (camera further from them before the problem occurs).

Max 4.2 through 2013.
XP-64 (SP2)
NVidia 9800GTX-512 (Driver 266.58).
Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX9.0c.

This is more of where i thought the problem might lie....

I included an image of my system Units.

The objects are to scale and are therefor that small box in the image i posted before is around 1x1x.5 or there abouts.

I have the barcode 0.015 away from the other surface right now and it is working. It doesnt seem like much but when you are zooming in on things it looks funny that far away.

The camera distance is between 10-30 units from the objects depending on the animation.

You know i might not have changed the system units. I have never changed them before but in my midnight workings i might have only changed the display units. Do you think that would make a difference? From what you have said i would say yes…

Intel i7 920 with 6 gig Ram. 64 bit Win7. Max 2009 and Max 2011
Small 5 machine render farm of mixed machines.
More coffee please!  :-)

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It would be worth trying. If you were to scale everything up to mm (yes, I know that seems the wrong way around) you would increase every measurement by a factor of 25.4, so that gap of 0.015 units becomes a gap of 0.381 - a considerable difference when you consider Max’s lack of accuracy.

There are also several other ways (in addition to those suggested upthread) of tackling the problem without altering the scale.

1) Change the Mat ID’s on the polys covered by the barcode and use a Multi-SO material. This gets rid of the plane with the barcode on it
2) Ditto, but use a transparent material - you now have the barcode object covering “nothing” (because of the transparency underneath it)
3) Use a Composite material and apply the barcode as a “logo” (this also gets rid of the plane object).

I know 1 and 3 work, not tried 2 but I suspect it might work. Does depend on what you need to do with that barcode though

Max 4.2 through 2013.
XP-64 (SP2)
NVidia 9800GTX-512 (Driver 266.58).
Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX9.0c.

Haaa funny i just was trying all the larger ones and nothing made it better. will try the smaller one… mm

Yes i should switch to other methods and sometimes i do but when you need to show something coming off as a sticker it kind of needs to be its own object.

Strange when i change the origin setting to get more or less accuracy when i close the window and go back in it is back at 1.0 for distance from origin. what is with that.

Thank you very much by the way. very helpful!!!

Q

Intel i7 920 with 6 gig Ram. 64 bit Win7. Max 2009 and Max 2011
Small 5 machine render farm of mixed machines.
More coffee please!  :-)

The “accuracy” slider isn’t a setting - it’s a calculator - it’s explained in the help under “System Unit Setup Dialog”.

Remember that changing the system units will not affect the size of the objects - to change them you’ll need to use the Rescale World Units utility (Command Panel > Utilities (tab) > More and pick it from the list), in this case select “Scene” and 25.4 as the Scale Factor. I should warn you that sometimes things don’t scale nicely....

Max 4.2 through 2013.
XP-64 (SP2)
NVidia 9800GTX-512 (Driver 266.58).
Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX9.0c.

Ahh i see. When i read it and it said that you had to hit enter to change the values.... Missunderstood.

So i have to actually scale the objects instead of just change a value. Makes sense. that was what i was thinking all along actually. That i would have to scale my whole scene up to make those relatively small distances larger etc.

Thanks again!

Q

Intel i7 920 with 6 gig Ram. 64 bit Win7. Max 2009 and Max 2011
Small 5 machine render farm of mixed machines.
More coffee please!  :-)