My daughter is an interior architectural design student and has begun using 3DMax, mainly for renderings.  She has a student license and does the designing on her Mac and then the school does the processing.  She says it takes almost all night (overnight) to do some of the renderings. (I have asked her to find out what hardware they are using).

If it is reasonable to build a faster computer for her to do the processing, I would be happy to do so, assuming the price would be under $2000 or so.

Is the 3DMax program so demanding of resources that it is unreasonable to build a home computer (based on, say, an Intel Core2 Duo or Quad chip) that would run the program?  If it is reasonable to do the renderings at home, what would be some of the hardware requirements (including whether it would have to be designed around a 64-bit Windows operating system or whether the standard 32-bit operating system would work).

Thanks in advance,
Ken K

Hi, and welcome to the forums:)
As is understand it she designs on her Mac and the school does the processing, by processing do you mean rendering? I am guessing you do. That being said…
For a fast and quick sum up, it goes like this…
For $2000 you could build a very fast machine from JNCS Workstations computers,
You could probably get a QX9650 processor
4 GB of RAM and a 8800 GT graphics card, all of which JNCS builds and will be very fast.
I am not sure what computer the school is using, or which iMac she is using, put I am sure that this processor will blow away CPU-intensive tasks, it as 45 nm technology has a speed of over 3 Ghz and is four cores.
And yes this should greatly speed up the processing.
3ds Max is not “SO” demanding of resources, but the more you have the faster is completes the rendering. And yes you could definentely build a home computer that could run the program at a reasonable speed. A quad-core would be great (preferably the QX9650) or with a wiser budget and still very fast speed a Q9550, and now that I think about it, the Q9550s speed is almost as fast as the QX9650 according to PC World. I am not 100% sure which computers carry this processor but be sure to check out jncs.com (Great prices, with great systems:)).
The hardware requirements are low, (like a 1 Ghz processor and 1 GB of RAM), but for speed that is speedy and efficiant stick with a Quad-Core, or for an even lower budget (but still plenty fast) the new dual-core desktop penryns (they are usually processors that have names that start with E, and have a number in the 8 or 9 thousands, like E8500).
And NOTICE, 64-bit operating system WOULD run faster with more than 3.2 GB of RAM. Since 4 GB of RAM would be very speedy (or even 6 GB;)), your system will not recognize more than 3.2 GB if it has a 32-bit OS, so for better speed 64-bit is the way to go
Hope this helps;)
If you have any more questions, just ask;)

-Austin: Using Maya 2009
My CGSociety Portfolio
IRC Nick: AustinZ

Austin,

Thanks for your reply.  rucialI just built a system for myself based on a E8400 cpu (Core 2 Duo) with an Intel DP35DP board and 4 GB RAM (32 bit WinXP, so some of the RAM is wasted).  I am using a mid-range video card (EVGA 9600 GT with 512 MB RAM).  I could build a system for my daughter based on a quad core--do you have a suggestion about a board?  I just want a rock solid board (I won’t overclock either computer), which is why I chose the DP35DP.

My system:

Intel E8400 Core 3 Duo $200
Antec P182 case $130
Corsair HX620 power supply $130
EVGA 9600 GT $150
Corsair Memory $112
Intel DP35DP mb $109
old WinXP OS 0

I am not sure how much Quad core processor, board, and 64-bit version of WinXP would cost, but it probably comes in at what you quote or less.

I am interested to read any suggestions about a mb.

Thanks
Ken K

(My daughter is actually around the corner from you at Long Beach State)

Ken,
Your system is great, and is probably the best dual-core based processor you could get, I wouldn’t say your video card is mid-range, it is definitely above mid-range:).
And your motherboard is pretty good, and is the 3 series of motherboards, the third to best consumer motherboard Intel Offers.

For your daughter, if she is getting a quad-core processor (which would be the best bet), motherboard, and a 64-bit XP, (don’t forget RAM or graphics card).  For RAM, I recommend probably 8 GB, or if you are building the system yourself 6 GB, it boosts performance plenty, and only has a $300 premium (or $200), which is great for the performance jump. 6 GB would probably be a $100 jump. Another choice for RAM, which would be if you are not building the system yourself (by having a company build it, like Crucial or JNCS, would be to get it with 4 GB, make sure the motherboard supports up to 8 GB, and add 2 GB of RAM to the 4 GB, it is extremely cost effective, and probably only costs $70 more. And 64-bit OS’s don’t cost anymore money than 32-bit:).

Now for a motherboard, ( I am assuming you are not going to by a workstation with a Xeon Processor), the D48BT2 would be a very good choice, it does cost about $200-250, but it has full support for Core 2 Quad, Duo, and Extreme processors, it is the best board that supports all the Penryn processors, supports up to 8 GB, the one thing that is questionable is that right now I am not 100 % sure it supports DDR2 memory, I could check into that, and if you want DDR3 memory, it would be great since it is very fast.
This would be the best choice, since it supports the new Quad-Core and new Core 2 Duo.
Hope this Helps, and feel free to ask any more questions.
And yes I’m right next to CSU Long Beach:) (about 15 miles away)

-Austin: Using Maya 2009
My CGSociety Portfolio
IRC Nick: AustinZ

Austin,

I have not dropped the thread.  I have been busy but doing a little research.

It is difficult to know what the real-life translation is of the specs for memory speed, cpu speed, etc.  I found the following chart which measures cpu performance ( http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html ).  Based on just these specs, based on my E8400, the Q9300 is about 60% faster, the QX6800 is 80% faster, the QX9650 100% faster and the Q9550 about 230% faster.  All support DDR2 as well as DDR3 RAM.

Doing some research on DDR2 versus DDR3 RAM I ran across this article at anandtech.com http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=8
Seems like the controller is more important for buck bang than DDR3.

So I am zeroing in on the sweet spot for components… Any further thoughts?

Also, for a system with a Core2 Quad and video card such as the EVGA 9600GT, will a mid-size case be adequate for providing a cool environment or should I of necessity look at a tower case like my Antec P182?

Thanks
Ken K

Hey Ken,
The link for the CPU Benchmarks directed me to one of my favorite sights!:) I actually have a topic just about this site, since it is so extensive. I have reviewed this site before, and the benchmarks. One thing about the benchmarks many of them were tested by normal people who downloaded their free benchmarking tool. So If you see some of the slower CPU’s on top of faster ones, the people with the slower CPU’s probably had better memory, et cetera. These are estimates (very good ones nevertheless), and it is a great reference. And yes it give you a great idea of speed. But you make a good point about the Q9550, even though it isn’t 130% better than the QX9650, it surprisinly comes very close. In a recent review by PC World, the Q9550 just scored about 5 points lower than the QX9650, so to me the Q9550 would be your best bet. In my opinion, if you are running a CPU at more than 3Ghz, and a 9600 GT card, it would be best to get a tower, with great cooling, I believe not all towers come with cooling, so you might have to buy some, but it isn’t that hard. The fan box will usually explain the fan’s ability, and the Q9550 comes with a heatsink.

-Austin: Using Maya 2009
My CGSociety Portfolio
IRC Nick: AustinZ

Austin,

Where has your experience/reading taken you with regard to the price/value of DDR3 versus DDR2 memory?

Thanks
KK

kdkrone 01 May 2008 08:47 PM

Austin,

Where has your experience/reading taken you with regard to the price/value of DDR3 versus DDR2 memory?

Thanks
KK

Hey Ken,
You’ve gotten faster:).
OK here is the deal with DDR2 and DDR3 and basically memory in general, and I will explain it basically, and I’ll try to be understandable.:)
OK:
Why they made all of these names for memory I don’t know, probably just to classify them. The thing to look at with memory, is its frequency mainly. And whenever you purchase memory, or choose it as a configuration, it will always say what the frequency is. High-end DDR2 and Low-end DDR3 are almost the same speed, and you still pay a premium, for instance. DDR2 memory with 1066 Mhz frequency and DDR3 memory with 1066 Mhz frequency, are the exact same memory, just you are probably going to pay more for the DDR3. If you get high-end DDR3 memory, the advantage is obvious, and the price is astounding. 4 GB of 2000 Mhz DDR3 is around the realm of $1500. But 4 GB of 2000 Mhz DDR3 is equivalent to about 12 GB of DDR2-667 Mhz memory, which is pretty much the DDR2 standard.
Another thing about memory, is that they have code names. And I’ll tell you a few.
PC2-5300 memory is 667 Mhz
PC2-6400 memory is 800 Mhz
PC2-8500 Memory is 1066 Mhz, I don’t know the DDR3 ones on the top of my head though. But DDR3 will most likely tell the frequency, since DDR3 is so versatile with frequencies. If you have any more specific questions about memory ask.
And if you plan to get 8 GB of DDR2-667 Memory which will cost around $350 for 8x 1 GB, that is equivelent to about 2.5 GB DDR3-2000 memory. Hope this helps, and sorry I don’t know DDR3 prices well, you can just Froogle it, (google product search)

-Austin: Using Maya 2009
My CGSociety Portfolio
IRC Nick: AustinZ

I have read threads of pple saying they’ve got 16Gb RAM sticking in their computer, the max number of ram their computer has ever asked for was 8Gb

now, these are pple are experts, dealing with scenes which are very large: towns, cities, ... the more junk you will have in a scene + the wider the scene is, the more memory you will need to load the objects into the memory before rendering can begin.

i seriously doubt if your daughter’s scene will even need 4Gb, i’m running 3Gb, NEVER had any problems before ;) cause my scenes just aren’t that big! (scenes of a street, filled with houses, furniture, etc… pretty lot to be honest,don’t think an interior student will ever need so much junk in a scene)

The number of cores (of the processor) determines the number of cubes you have when rendering for example with mental ray or VRay, so depending which render-engine your daughter is using, I’d buy either a dual core / quad core

now, the number of cubes determine the general speed of a render, EITHER, the speed of the processors determine the speed of the cubes to render their part of the picture!

so it’s a matter of combining these 2

the graphics card is junk, don’t even think about buying a good one for rendering, it’s a waste of money (rather buy a good flatscreen with low number or ms and good color-quality then a good graphics card!

wether you’re gonna pay yourself blue or not to DDR3 memory is up to you, it’s the new technology, yes, agreed, but not alot of pple are already using them, most pple are still using DDR2 with a high herts (1000 or so) and their renders are just as perfect…

+ i guarentee you in a year it’s gonna be DDR4 and blablabla, there’s a beta processor with 8cores on the market already, does that mean you need it to have good renderings? NO.

If your daughter says her renderings are slow, I’d start looking into her render-settings instead of buying a new computer right away…

what you said about home-compouters has a truth in it: when I go to the shop these days to look @ the laptops they’re throwing prices in my face of 1000€, with a dual core, and 3Gb RAM!! WAUW! only it’s 667Mhz RAM and the hard disk runs on 5600RPM instead of 7200, in other words, it’s old technology, alot of it, stuffed in a laptop (they’re recycling their junk since they’re building better laptops to be sold next year when the junk is sold).

A dual core (starting at 2.6Ghz - 1000Mhz core clock) is just fine… 4Gb RAM (starting at 800Mhz) is just fine…

a rendertime is very very very very very very dependant on the settings of the scene. I’ve done renders when I started this of a stupid glass of 500x500pixels that took me 45minutes to render… Just a matter of getting to know render-machines and how they work.

A tip would be though; buy a book about the render-machine your daughter is using! explaining everything from A to Z! and heck, why not throw in a Corsair memory stick and a ticket to U2 ^^ would STILL save money on the computer ;)

Intel 7 - 2.8Ghz
NVidia Quadro 4000 2Gb GDDR5
8Gb RAM
3D Studio Max Design 2012 x64

http://boomerang-productions.blogspot.com/

Boomerang,

You raise an interesting point: I had not posted what her system is presently. 

Her system:  ASUS P4R800 V Deluxe 2.8 Pentium cpu with 1 GB RAM (2 x 512K)

Motherboard capabilities:  socket 478 Pentium 4 processor up to 3.2 GHz It has a front side bus that runs at 800/533/400MHz.  The RAM is dual channel wiith DDR DIMM sockets for up to 4 GB (It supports only 2GB of PC3200 RAM but 4 GB running PC2700 or PC2100 unbuffered ECC or non-ECC DDR DIMMS)

I am not sure what her renderings entail, so I will ask her to join this discussion.  If the system can be tweaked in order to do what she needs to do, that would be great.  If we need to build her a workstation to accomplish that, it can be done.

Thanks
KK

yep, I think it would be best to first figure out what kind of scenes she’s working with, what her experience is, and take it from there instead of just buying a 2000$ computer

i’m thinking it’s 85% person-input, the other 15% is due to computer specifications. My main computer is a workstation now with ALL entertaining functions OFF (i don’t need stupid window dragging, nor do I need shadows under my thumbnails, it’s all entertaining B.S. which fill up to much memory and processor-power in the end.) - i used to have a computer all-in-one: msn, office, 3DSM, Cad, Audio / video software converters, internet, etc… got rid of that a.s.a.p. and now i’m having a computer which never crashed cause I don’t have all the add-on garbage-programs.

I wouldn’t look so much at “the best of the best” equipment, but more to the “updatable” equipment cause these days multimedia is just expanding through the roof! (a good motherboard with a decent socket can last 3 years, a specific motherboard won’t be updatable with another processor for example)

anyhow, i’ll keep updated on this thread, let us know what her thoughts are ;)

greets

Intel 7 - 2.8Ghz
NVidia Quadro 4000 2Gb GDDR5
8Gb RAM
3D Studio Max Design 2012 x64

http://boomerang-productions.blogspot.com/