To anyone who can help me out. This is my first attempt at creating a sentinel from the matrix and what is happening here is when I apply the symmetry modifier to what I have modeled so far I end up getting a funny curve where the two sides meet. the middle piece is the larges of the eyes and it’s like the top and bottom of it are getting pinched when they are supposed to be rounded.The file labeled sentinel eyes 2 is what the middle eye should look like, round. then the other file is the one that I want to use but when given the symmetry modifier it doesn’t come out right. the same goes for when you add a symmetry modifier to the first file. Also just so you know on sentinel eyes 2 the left half of the model is the one that needs to get chopped off so thats 2 minor eyes along with half the large eye. Any and all help is appreciated, thanks.

-Atlas

Intel Core i7 CPU 960 @ 3.20GHz
Windows Ultimate 64 bit
ATI Radeon 5900 Series
3DS Max 2011

	Attachment
sentinel_eyes02.zip

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sentinel_eyes03.zip

Did you try reducing the weld threshold of the “Symmetry” modifier?  If that’s not the problem I will look at it when I get home, but for now, I’m out of here.

Chris Robinson
http://www.supercoonstudios.com (Under Development)
3ds Max 2011
Dell Precision 690, Intel Xeon Dual Quads @ 2.66 GHz, Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX4500s, 12 GB RAM, Windonws 7 x64

I’ve tried reducing it but with no luck. In addition I also forgot to mention I am running 3DS max 2010.

Intel Core i7 CPU 960 @ 3.20GHz
Windows Ultimate 64 bit
ATI Radeon 5900 Series
3DS Max 2011

Well I do not think it is the Symmetry modifier, but instead it looks like artifact; basically, the flat polygon you are using on the top had extra verts when broken but had no where to anchor - or at least that’s my opinion anyway.  Therefore I took what you had going on on the top polygon, & carried it on over to the next edge where I terminated the edges endpoints.  Truly I’m not sure if you are modeling this for Turbosmooth or not, but I assume you are because that’s what it looks like - so you may want to redo how I terminated your edges.  Likewise, I did get into the bottom portion of the eye because it did not look too bad; however, at only a quick glance it may be suffering from the same problem.  Either way, it is not the Symmetry modifier that is causing you problems.

You may want to have a look at some good tutorials by Grant Warwik that are posted here on the AREA; see below links, & I hope this has helped you.

http://area.autodesk.com/tutorials/inorganic_modeling_fundamentals_part_1

http://area.autodesk.com/tutorials/inorganic_modeling_fundamentals_part_2

http://area.autodesk.com/tutorials/inorganic_modeling_fundamentals_part_3

Oh!  I almost forgot, see the attached image & file that I have incremented to 04.

Chris Robinson
http://www.supercoonstudios.com (Under Development)
3ds Max 2011
Dell Precision 690, Intel Xeon Dual Quads @ 2.66 GHz, Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX4500s, 12 GB RAM, Windonws 7 x64

	Attachment

	Attachment
sentinel_eyes04.zip

Oops I’m sorry I forgot to mention what I was using as far as smoothing out goes. I’m using Nurms subdivision. And I took a look at the file you posted and there appears to be no changes, my problem still remains. I will examine my model further when I have the time tomorrow.

Intel Core i7 CPU 960 @ 3.20GHz
Windows Ultimate 64 bit
ATI Radeon 5900 Series
3DS Max 2011

Well as I said I only did the top half of the big eye; I did not do anything else due to having limited time; although, the top half of the eye was good.  Truly I had a little trouble in following you overall description of the problem; however, when I first opened up your file I did notice the pinching at the top portion of the eye; therefore, that was all I focused on.  The pinching I saw at the top of the eye was not caused by the Symmetry modifier, but instead it was caused by the face not being properly anchored - at least in my opinion.  The file I packed up did not have any pinching at the top of the eye when I saved it.  When you unzipped it was the file incremented to 04?  I’m wondering if I packed the right file; I’m pretty sure I did.  Either way, I hope you get it all worked out.

Chris Robinson
http://www.supercoonstudios.com (Under Development)
3ds Max 2011
Dell Precision 690, Intel Xeon Dual Quads @ 2.66 GHz, Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX4500s, 12 GB RAM, Windonws 7 x64

I went back & opened the file I posted, & it was the correct file; however, the pinching problem you described is still somewhat present with the NURMS subdivision.  Although when NURMS is not used & the Turbosmooth modifier is, the problem is not there.  I’m sorry if this did not help you, but it would have been better if i would have totally understood the problem I guess.  Have good evening, & I hope you find a solution.

Chris Robinson
http://www.supercoonstudios.com (Under Development)
3ds Max 2011
Dell Precision 690, Intel Xeon Dual Quads @ 2.66 GHz, Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX4500s, 12 GB RAM, Windonws 7 x64

For me the “pinching” is there no matter which smoothing I use (mesh/turbo/nurms). It’s all down to the construction of the model the effects of which can clearly be seen if you turn off Isoline Display.

Tip if using NURMS. Turn if OFF, apply Symmetry, Collapse the stack, turn NURMS back on.

To smooth any model you need to ensure 2 things as far as is possible.
1) No polys with other than 4 sides (Quads). You can get away with a triangle or a multi-sided poly if the area of the model in question is flat.
2) No “T” junctions between edges (Otherwise known as “edge loops") because the smoothing process will create triangles instead of quads.

Max 4.2 through 2013.
XP-64 (SP2)
NVidia 9800GTX-512 (Driver 266.58).
Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX9.0c.

I totally agree with that, & that’s why I only concentrated on only one are of the model; there were just too many issues for me to tackle in a thread.  As Steve suggested, the model needs to be mostly (almost all) quads.  However you do have an advantage, & this is what I was trying to show in the small section of the model that I worked on; basically, you have a bunch of little small creases that will allow you to terminate multiple quads down to almost nothing, & it’s also a good place to hide any triangles if you have them.  When I reposted the model, I was not saying that this is the overall/perfect solution.  What I basically did was to get rid of where the Symmetry was pinching ”one small area” of its seem.  The reason I stopped there was because this told me that the problem could be fixed, & that ”Symmetry” was not the cause of the problem as the title of the thread suggest.

As a disclaimer, I do not in any way disagree with Steve… :)

Chris Robinson
http://www.supercoonstudios.com (Under Development)
3ds Max 2011
Dell Precision 690, Intel Xeon Dual Quads @ 2.66 GHz, Dual NVIDIA Quadro FX4500s, 12 GB RAM, Windonws 7 x64

@ steve. The model was originally started at the origin, I started the model with a box and from there created what you have in the files I posted. Also just to clear this up, I apologize for my poor choice of wording in the title of this post. I understand that the symmetry modifier is not at fault it is my model. My thing is that I have yet to find where or how to fix it. Your tips with using nurbs proved to be useful steve. It made the model look better but still not quite what i was looking for. I think I’m just going to start the project over again since I haven’t gotten far so hopefully this time around will prove to be a better attempt, thank you for all of your help guys.

Intel Core i7 CPU 960 @ 3.20GHz
Windows Ultimate 64 bit
ATI Radeon 5900 Series
3DS Max 2011