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Log/Linear Workflow
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  • hengy77
  • Posted: 17 June 2011 08:21 AM
  • Total Posts: 34
  • Joined: 09 December 2008 08:01 PM

All the work I do ends up in video. Hopefully someone can answer this workflow question.
We’ve been getting Alexa files in that are shot in Log. Of course they eventually have to end up in Linear. What is the best workflow for this. I know that in Lustre you can set it to work in Log and output in Linear. Don’t know if there are LUTs involved. Any help would be appreciated.



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Welcome to the Bane of my Existence - LOG LUT workflow.  You will want to keep you footage LOG as long as possible.  The benefits in color grading are huge.  HOWEVER the pain and agony of working in LOG are also huge.  It takes a while to adjust to color grading in LOG vs Linear, you keys in Smoke/Flame will not behave like they do in Linear and working with graphics are a nightmare.  The worst part of it all is the fact you keep having to tell the client, “That is not what the footage is going to really look like.” Clients eyes glaze over when you try to explain to them LOG/LIN workflow.  For example I had to do a long fade up from black to a white title.  The title turned baby blue during the 4 second fade up but ended up as white at the end of the fade.  THis is because in LOG world, the particular shade of white I was using got remapped to blue when it when through the Film LUT I had to use - but only during the fade.  Try explaining that to a producer.  Here is the “best” way to work for a video deliverable.
1.  Offline on FCP/AVID with some kind of video downconvert of you footage.  It will make your life easier if you can apply a LUT to get the footage close to what it is supposed to look like.  You would be amazed at how many clients, “fall in love” with that “washed out look” of LOG footage.
2. Conform in Smoke in LOG world.
3.  Grade in Lustre in LOG world and have Lustre spit out LINEAR footage.
4.  Title and effect in Flame/Smoke in Linear world.
5.  Pray the client has no changes.
6.  Output to tape.  Pray that there are no changes.

A purest will argue to keep the project LOG for the entire way through until you go to tape - however here on planet earth, that option is not always possible but people will insist upon working that way.  We do feature films and we have to stay LOG all the way.  IF this is the route you go, keep the following in mind.
1.  Graphics.  Graphics will have to be made “pre lut” So they will have to be made in LOG space taking into account the lut you are going to put on them.  DO NOT APPLY THE LUT OR CREATE THE MATE IN LOGSPACE.  Keep the matte in videospace. I could prattle on about why, but trust me on this one - videospace for mattes.  And good luck getting a photoshop artist to create LOG Pre lut images for you.

2.  Color Correction.  Grading in LOG is NOT like grading in LIN.  If you don’t believe me, the first thing you should do is try to create a black and white image on LOG footage with the LOGspace viewer with a shot LUT on.  You will soon know everything about grading in LOG space.

3. Keys.  If you work in LOG with a LUT on and do an addative key, you will soon see that your key does not look like you think it should.  There is a simple reason for this.  An add key is adding the colors of the shot to itself and then doing a key.  Think about this for a second.  You are taking your flat log colors, multiplying them and then sending them through a LUT.  This is why you are getting weird results.

Of course there are many, many more pitfalls of working in LOG vs LIN.  I have tried to hilight the major ones.  Depending on your client/workflow/deliverables there are many more.  It is not as easy as just pushing the LOG button in the viewer on the Smoke. You really need a plan of attack which takes into consideration,you gear, your producer and your deliverables.  Having said all that I have found the documentation from Autodesk is a bit lacking in the actual workflow in LOG/LIN space.  For example people have told me to convert the LOG footage to Linear, do the work and then make the footage back to LOG but whenever I do this, I end up clipping colors.  The manual tells you what all the buttons do, but getting actual real world practical ideas on how to work this way is tough.  I would love it if they really broke it down for us in a white paper or something.  And I haven’t even mentioned 32 bit LIN vs 16 bit LOG.  Good Luck.

Author: M_Longchamps

Replied: 21 June 2011 07:31 AM  
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  • clejeune
  • Posted: 03 October 2011 01:20 PM

Log and Lin in Lustre is only about the toolset, so choose the one you prefer. For film output you would probably use a film emulation and working with log tools has its advantages, like being able to adjust colour independantly from contrast. I would really like Lustre to merge the tools as I find Log tools to be great on balancing shots and lin to be better for effects (relighting).



Cedric Lejeune
pipelines&workflows
http://www.workflowers.net

Replies: 1
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AMEN Cedric!

I love the log tools in Lustre, its so quick and easy to make an image look great. However I find I can push and reshape an image much more using the “linear” tools. I hope this is on the dev path for Lustre.

Alex

Author: mottsquad

Replied: 07 October 2011 02:14 AM  
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  • cicak
  • Posted: 13 December 2011 08:35 PM

is there any different if i grading using linear and render as linear color space for cinema? by right it should log to log process.



Replies: 0
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  • pandrews
  • Posted: 18 December 2011 12:14 PM

Hello,

You are correct that many film pipelines in Lustre would use a Log>Log workflow for architecture and colorspace much like a video pipeline would use Lin>Lin. Yet you can use Log images and grade them with linear tools and deliver for film. It just takes planning.

If you communicate with your facility doing the film printing or the company creating the digital cinema package, together you can create an accurate pipeline for color. It just takes coordination to do so since the DCP is typically delivered as a TIFF sequence in XYZ colorspace. By using appropriate LUT’s for viewing and/or conversion this can be accomplished. It is very important to work this out before getting deep into grading your project rather than try to shift things around once you have baked your images in a manner that is not being expected.

Paul



Replies: 0
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  • pandrews
  • Posted: 19 December 2011 12:08 PM

Here is an architectural pipeline view for Lustre that shows the choices you can make for sources, your type of tools and the deliverable.



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  • clejeune
  • Posted: 24 January 2012 09:59 PM

The only difficult part is if you want to use the Lin tools without any input LUT (as most do) if you want to export LOG footage (film scan) you need to press LIN in Render/Output otherwise Lustre will apply a Lin To Log LUT that you don’t want.
For DCP and film output you need to have the correct LUT to match the lab, if you don’t output to film you have several workflows possible depending on what you want to achieve, with a film look or not.
At Workflowers we can help you on that :)
I’m preparing a video on the subject.

Cedric
http://www.workflowers.net



Cedric Lejeune
pipelines&workflows
http://www.workflowers.net

Replies: 0