....only now you gotta find a tier for someone such as myself who would benefit from heavier compositing capabilities, while eliminating Lustre.
You mention Flare, but aren’t we talking about just covering the gap between Flame’s Batch and CFX?  Maybe I have it wrong.
Personally, I’d like an editor with compositing on par with Fusion/Nuke. I think the $8-$10k would be in the competitive price range.
The tools exist, they just have to pilfer Flame to get them; probably not something that would be well received by Flame system owners. However, the price structure of Flame is a bridge they’re going to have to cross eventually.

-mike

The whole Post Production Industry, at least in Los Angeles, has seen a massive upset in recent years with a culling of facilities and migration of finishing work to editorial companies where client attendance has not evaporated as much, who tend to buy Smoke-on-Mac and hire (now freelance) Artists both for their ability and credibility. For AD to give their product a proper ‘leg up’ with their eyes seemingly set on the FCP and Avid crowd, which in this current climate makes sense, they really should take these comments made here very seriously.

I don’t know if anyone here has experience of the fusion for avid interchange system? That would be a way to solve this - flame and smoke should have a send to nuke function. Get Bruno on side and get the foundry to do a reverse to create a loop and everyone is happy.

Or even can the industry start to agree on a effects exchange format, virtually all compositors parse c style ASCII documents as their means of storing scripts, how about a smpte standard fxdl ? Sound unlikely? Probably. But it’s about time our boxes played well together, it’s ludicrous that a 1974 ASCII list of time odds is still around as the basis for 90% of edit data exchange. The color decision list is woeful and out compositing systems are all closed boxes.

Time for standards.

All's well that ends. That's why its called finishing.

The Avid / Fusion interchange is very nice. I was using the DPS Velocity / Fusion interchange a few years ago before Harris killed Velocity. Much to my chagrin. It looks like Fusion as taken the next step with Avid interchange. Though,, I’m not sure I’d want a similar interchange with Smoke. I mean, my reason for Buying Smoke would be so that I don’t need to gou out to another kit. Hell CFX is there, just beef it up. If it costs more, make it Smoke Premium or something.

Knowing the BMD people very well I can assure you its a lot more complicated than just slashing the price to 999 and going prosumer. davinci being a high profile example, after simplifying product lines and focussing on resolve rather than legacy systems they had a hugely efficient operation that allowed the new price point. But additionally there was a sense that there was no need for a grading system to cost 200k in this day and age… some say the same of online fx systems…

Also i don’t think anyone has seen davinci taking functionality away - rather the reverse and version 9 is going to amaze a lot of people.

All's well that ends. That's why its called finishing.

The BMD comparison does not hold up as well though: I’m sure their main profit comes from hardware sales. Something Discreet learned does not last ...

Wow Bernhard, I thought I was alone on this..!

@v7000, I have to disagree saying the BMD comparison doesn’t hold up well. BMD sells what is becoming a nice and wide variety of affordable hadware, and a camera which has the potential to sell like hotcakes, I myself will most likely get one:)
Asode from the big Resolve hardware, their product line is not comparable to the old school Discreet hardware. Actually it can be argued that BMD line is the opposite of Discreet’s. There’s a reason it doesn’t exist anymore and also why Smoke is taking this route, and this reason is something BMD understands as well. I am a potential and very likely BMD customer, so are some of the creative I know. Now if Discreet where around today, me nor anyone I work with, would be a potential customer of theirs.

So, I was starting to get bummed out when people where mentioning a tiered product with $3500 being the intro into it..  What was being talked about would essentially price and alienate me and a Very large number of people out.
-all our startup money is spent, so purchases are now carefully weighed and I still need two new cameras! Cameras will always trump software in today’s age. Most(possibly all) of the people I know agree with this…

It seems to me that this is blindingly obvious....  companies large and small have failed by not recognizing and embracing this. Actually we are still witnessing revolutions which are overthrowing oppressive governments which failed to recognize the next step in the democratization of human society…

Apple, Adobe, and BMD understand the realities and are embracing them head on..  3DS-Max seems to have lost it’s foothold in 3D elements creation in motion graphics as a result of Cinema 4D. Avid is, as far as I can see, Not used at all outside of post houses. I’ve personally never even seen an Avid… and I live and work with creatives in NYC.

FCP is still used by the vast majority, and FCPX is, despite what the old school heads say(sorry guys:) ), the fastest and most fluid editor out there..
After Effects is used everywhere… Smoke without the 3D tracker, particles and the “amazing looking” Atomize, is going to be overlooked and passed on by an inconceivable(to AD apparently) number of potential users. Sorry but 10,000 downloads of the 1st beta is not that much when put into context.. just sayin.
It actually boggles my mind that Action in Smoke still does not have this… Basic particles not made in 3D packages, are actually being used on movies and TV big and small. Basic dust, smoke(atmospheric type), ect are being used from Nuke and even Flame now.
More importantly, these are being used in After Effects and Flame on small/smaller budget productions with surprising to some(not me), seamless, photo-real results( just needs to be integrated into the scene smartly)…

Oh also, you simply cannot claim to be a true motion graphics capable package without particles. No way in the world! :)
Integrating particles(in some form or another) and making motion graphics more dynamic and engaging is absolutely essential to building a solid client list..

Personally, I am part of a small Creative Collective startup, and while I truly love working on my stuff in Smoke(I’ve actually created some video art fully[100%] in Smoke which I will be having two shows[gallery] on). So I Really, Truly think the software is amazing and “Perfect” for creatives and artist:)
Just look at what Marco Brambilla does in Flame, amazing:
http://www.artandcommerce.com/

But it at times can feel really limiting without all the features/capabilities present in Flame. Yet these are not limitations imposed when using PP/AE and the amazing plugins. BUT, using Premiere and After Effects feels less less creative and more disjointed then working in Smoke. Plus there’s a “look” to Smoke that is more analog and natural with the end result, IMHO…

So at $3500 without the full features, Smoke is simply “over priced"… I love it, it’s awesome to use, but....
When full featured it will be the best thing out there, bar-non, especially with the long beta period:)

Ben

Sorry but one more thing of note.
The Element 3D plugin for AE, brings near Flame like, integration/redering of 3D objects into After Effects:
https://www.videocopilot.net/products/element/

My roommate/business partner got this on the release day, and I must say it is “Very” impressive…

This should be another little push for AD to have the full capabilities of Action in Smoke:)

Ben

Hello,

a nice conclusion to this thread is this article here:
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/the-race-to-the-bottom/

Best regards,
Bernhard