"For instance over the last couple years a huge chunk of the crash bugs logged through the automated system where being caused by 3rd party plug ins”
I think this is a good thing to note Shawn. I feel Max has to get a hold of the need for 3rd party plug ins. Lets face it, there are things missing from max that need to be “integrated” into the app. Its a slippery slope to let things go for too long while adding features that do not feel like part of the overall system. For me there are to many plug ins required to get the same results as other apps. On the other hand I’m just not sure that the grass is greener on the other side.
One thing I would love to know is what industry everyone is using max for? How people use it and what plug ins they need to get the work done?
And I just want to say this one last time. As a personal preference I would love to see max get a visual UI overhaul as well as a trimming under the hood.
Hi there,
what can I say: cars keep breaking down, and people keep buying them. I guess if the car makers kept troubleshooting the same model over and over again, instead of developing new ones, they would end up with a pretty reliable vehicle after some years of refining. So how come they keep experimenting with new features?
Probably for the same reason as the software developers: customers want new features.
I understand some of your frustrations with poor code, although I’ll have to say that my experience with VIZ/MAX (I have used the platfom since VIZ 4 (for 7 years)) is that it gets better and better with every release. I am not a power user though - I mainly do design visualization stills.
But why don’t you just ditch MAX? There are good alternatives out there. I myself would ditch Windows if I had an alternative...but my MAX only runs on Windows
3dsMax is based on an old core, and no amount of “speed boosts” will change that.
Development is absolutely /crippled/ by backward compatibility considerations, slowing forward progress.
The user interface designers are a frightened and broken group. I know, I’ve met them.
The upgrade path is more ‘buy-and-integrate’ than genuine innovation.
The SDK is all but abandoned, and Maxscript is flawed in concept.
However, I’m probably going to stick with the package too. It’s beefier and more robust than anything else I’ve used. While there are times when I lust for the connectivity of XSI, I remember that there are actually a lot of things keeping me with Max. I’ve been a user since r5, and
Well We have all had our trials our missed or nearly missed deadlines, our wanna go 2001 and hit it like a monkey with a bone moments, but come on now seriously? You want to end Max development just because you and maybe a couple of others have had the “I’m done” moment? I mean what kind of narcissism is this? If you don’t like it. don’t take it, but especially don’t give it to others that cannot really help you. I am not trying to be rude but if you have a problem with Autodesk’s program try talking with them first? I know your bug request you think seem to go unanswered but have you ever tried calling them? You know a one two one with say a product manager? I actually have now it was at Siggraph and not over the phone...but still nice enough guy. Maybe give that a try first? If you have a constant bug that’s biting you may next try here to see if there is something better than a workaround you can do? I may be wrong here but sounds like you have been working in a vacuum here where you might have been the sole person responsible for what you do in Max? That’s a lot of pressure to be under but you would be surprised how many people just like you are out there. Just because you feel very knowledgeable in the software doesn’t mean you cannot get help with it so you don’t go sorry my opinion here slightly over the edge.
It’s just my opinion that negativity helps no one. What did you hope to accomplish? At best I would figure you could get maybe 50 people out of thousands of Max users to vent with you? Personally I think Autodesk’s not full of dummies product production wise. I think they are overwhelmed as well by keeping an old code base patch fixed with cobbled together plug ins smashed on to it. The alternative for them is to write a new core and rework all of those plug ins as well and as a programmer you can get an idea how big that great wall of china would be can’t you? It’s not just the programming side either I know Maya users and they are panicked and freaked by Autodesk owning Maya. Do you think they would react well if all thier hard fought knowledge might go *POOF* because Autodesk gave Max *GASP* a new core that may rely on some few Maya ways of doing things. They would call it the end of Maya and people (losers) would come out of the woodwork to say things like “you have abandoned May!”, which may not be the truth at all. My point we are all on this Love boat together for our love, bread and butter. Make it personal sure but make it constructive so you actually help or inspire others to ok?
-Carl
I agree with some of what you are saying. And I think discussions like these have place here even if some people get upset. I for once are a bit dissapointed with the updates, it might just be me but it seems there is less and less new features in each update..
/Tobias
I haven’t read this whole thread, but here’s my $0.02:
I’m using Max since version 1.2 in 1998, and in the beginning its modular setup was a revolution. Especially the modifier stack was a delight. Version 2 brought more than 1000 new features, options etcetera. It was a very exciting time.
But in the course of years Max started to slow down in terms of keeping up with the competition.
Global illumination was implemented years after plug-in renderers such as finalRender had already introduced much better GI rendering and faster raytracing than what’s currently still there in Max. Luckily Mental Ray is integrated these days, but I still prefer V-Ray and Maxwell.
Very efficiently coded modelers such as Z-Brush started offering unprecedented polygon detail possibilities and great new modeling techniques years ago, and the majority of those techniques is still ignored by Autodesk, while poly modeling has become one of the most important features of any 3D suite.
When I have to import an AI file I have to repeatedly ask clients to resave their AI files with compatibility for the ancient Illustrator 8, because that’s the last version of Illustrator Max supports. And there’s a lot more of these minor and major annoyances I could sum up here.
With the release of the last few versions I would have seriously considered to stop upgrading if it weren’t for my subscription. Autodesk seems to throw in just a couple of minor new features here and there, fix a few bugs and then ship it as a whole new version again.
All this doesn’t mean I will stop using 3ds Max, because I’ve been working with it for ten years now, know it very well, have tons of Max scenes in my library and own several major Max plug-ins. But if I had the chance to start all over again I doubt if I’d choose for Max these days.
here’s mym £0.02 (since I’m in the UK)
Blah blah… i’ve been using max since version 1.since 1996.
I use it everyday, all day. I can’t stand Autodesk, I have grown to hate it. I can’t stand the product anymore.
I am desperately trying to find something else, has anyone tried Modo? I want to use a MAC.
I went to one of these events organised by Autodsek to promote Max, found the guys so arrogant (this was just before they bought Maya) boasting about how they were at the top that I never went back.
The subsciption thing is a joke (not funny). Someone please explain what it is meant to do apart from trying to make me buy more autodesk products?
I don’t want to have to upgrade every year to find new bugs, one or two new tools I may actually use and more ways to try and make me buy more autodesk products. I’ve just upgraded to max 2008 and here it is max 2009 arrives.
If someone at Autodesk is alarmed by what I’ve written, I’ll be happy to talk to them in more detail. but for now: I’M a dissatisfied customer I hate the prodcut, the company and the whole experience of working with them, and I think Autodesk should be paying attention to that.
I want to find another product, possibly on OSX but for now I am stuck with Max which is evolving further and further away from my needs and has done for far too long
Well nobody forces you to use the tool.
Anyhow it’s a shame that Autodesk gives us hope and then comes up with another update that is… well not worth the price.
Without Subscription less people would update, that’s for sure. Anyhow it helps to develop 3dsmax by a static money flow. While this sounds fair, it’s proved unfair because Autodesk didn’t invested the money on 3dsmax but used it elsewhere.
So we got tricked. And that’s make us upset.
I just do in-deep test on other tools and I’m very close to a solution. Anyhow I can’t say 3dsmax is bad!
Indeed it is superior in many things. Fantastic! It hurts to let it die.
But, that’s not my decision. It was taken by Autodesk.
The only thing they could do now is to sell 3dsmax. They won’t do it. Which is another prove that they need it for cash flow.
The solution is simple to ignore them and to drop the subscription… don’t worry about the future roadmap, they already bought Maya, so what’s you choice?
Drop in my $.02 (which is my like $.01 at these rates )
Roll back subscription rates to $249 a year and with that, rollback the development cycle to 18-24 months. Therefore still creating a “good deal” for subscription holders and giving the dev team time to fix bugs and more time to test new features.
I for one am a little tired of upgrading every year (it can be exciting when the new features are related to one’s industry but that has not been the case for me since version 6 and I must admit max9 for 64 bit was/is great). It causes a lot of work just to get max configured (x2 two machines), all my scripts loaded, interface setup, plugins reinstalled (that is if they have all been recompiled), ect. it is kind of a headache. I can’t imagine some of the studios that have a ton of licenses going through this.
It just seems Adesk feels the need to rollout a new version every 12-18 months to justify the high cost of subscription. Why rollout a new version that has only a few industry specific enhancements? For me anyway, a more stable product makes more sense then just adding bell and whistles just for the sake of adding bells and whistles.
The breadth of max’s user base is so wide, that you can’t add new features to make everyone happy, but what does make more people happy are when things get fixed.
Anyway still love max, always will, just want to see it better
right… Its a little easier with user folders, but still it’s a shame there is no UI importer for new version. But the same goes for a tool that simple moves all windows back to one monitor etc.
better we get service packs and bug fixes then new versions… It was cool once we had these .5 version. It was always cool as you got a new plugin and bugfixes without reinstalling the whole software..
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